|
INTERVIEW
TRANSCRIPT
-
Ferdinand
Cruz
|
 Ferdinand Cruz
is
a
regional
coordinator
for
the
Destructive
Fisheries Reform
Program,
an
outreach
of
the
International
Marinelife
Alliance
in
the
Philippines
and
Indonesia.
|
How
big
is
the
problem
of
cyanide
fishing
here
in
the
Philippines?
In the
Philippines
there
are
four
to
six
thousand
cyanide
users.
It's
bigger
in
Indonesia
because
they
have
a
bigger
area
and
they're catching
a
lot
of
groupers
and
they're
number
one
in
ornamental
fish
It's
hard
because
when
they
come
in,
they
do
not
bring in
the
cyanide;
they
tie
it
in
a
reef
area.
If
they're
using
it,
they
have
a
pre-arranged
signal
so
that
if
any
boat
approaches,
they
just
drop
the
cyanide.
So
it's
very
hard
to
catch.
How
do
you
deal
with
corrupt
local
government
officials?
It's very
hard
to
deal
with
corrupt
officials.
We
usually
just
back
out
of
the
area
when
we
have
to
deal
with
corrupt
officials.
And
we
go
to
areas
where
the
mayor
is
more
?
the
officials
are
more
sincere.
And
then
we
try
to
make
it
a
model
for
the
others
to
copy.
What
do
you
think
is
the
best
way
to
stop
cyanide
fishing?
It's very
hard
but
we
have
to
just
do
training
with
the
fishermen
right
now
because
they
need
to
feed
their
family.
And
then
the
resources have
been
destroyed
by
commercial
fishing
and
corrupt
officials and
enforcement.
So
they
need
to
be
able
to
do
training
and
go
into
a
holistic
approach
where
each
should
have
a
solution
to
their
problem.
Why
do
you
think
so
many
people
in
the
Philippines
and
Indonesia
use
cyanide?
In Indonesia
they
say
that
they
do
not
know
other
alternatives
then using
cyanide
to
catch
fish,
in
terms
of
the
products
that
they need.
Then
the
middle
man
that
pays
them
a
very
low
price.
So
they
have
to
catch
more;
that's
why
they're
using
cyanide.
Is
it
still
possible
for
fishermen
to
catch
groupers
and
ornamentals
without
using
cyanide?
There is
a
chance
for
them
to
get
out
of
cyanide
if
they
are
properly
trained.
And
again
they
have
to
have
that
market
link-up.
Because
if
the
middle
man
pays
them
a
very
low
price,
the
pressure
for
them
to
catch
more
is
there.
So,
they
have
to
go
back
to
cyanide.
Could
you
comment
on
how
IMA
(International
Marine-life
Alliance) helps
those
fishermen
you
are
working
with
to
link
up
directly
with
the
market?
We are
looking
for
100%
net
caught
exporters,
or
those
who
are
committed to
just
ship
out
100%
net
caught.
So
that
on
the
buyer
side
they will
really
feel
it's
net
caught
and
it
doesn't
die
immediately on
them.
So
on
the
hook
and
line
thing,
they
also
are
looking
for
an
outfit
that
would
like
to
do
100%
hook
and
line.
Do
you
think
it's
a
good
idea
for
consumers
who
buy
groupers
and
ornamentals
to
seek
out
fish
from
suppliers
that
are
caught
with
hook
and
line
or
with
nets?
It's very
important
that
the
buyers
of
live
fish
and
net
caught
ornamentals
should
seek
out
only
net
caught.
Have
you
seen
restoration
of
coral
reefs
in
areas
where
you
trained
fishermen
to
catch
without
cyanide?
We have
seen
the
restoration
coming
in,
but
we
need
to
really
monitor
it
and
IMA
has
to
really.it
takes
time
because
IMA
has
to
monitor
and
see
to
it
that
the
habit
of
using
cyanide
is
weaned
out
of
the fisherman.
Because
it
becomes
a
habit
for
a
fisherman.
You
mentioned
earlier
that
you
penetrated
Davao
del
Sur
first,
an
area
rife
with
sea
gypsies.
That's
where
you
found
the
toughest
customers.
Could
you
comment
on
that?
When
I
went
there,
I
went
to
different
areas
and
they
kept
pointing
m
to
Davao
and
then
to
Santa
Cruz
area
until
we
found
the
Bijaos
and
they
were
known
to
be
the
leaders
in
illegal
fishing
there.
So
we did
the
penetration
there
and
we
have
been
there
for
a
duration.
Have
there
been
times
when
lives
of
IMA
staff
members
or
even
your
own
life
has
been
threatened
by
going
into
a
community?
We have
not
been
threatened
in
these
villages
because
basically
fishermen
are
looking
for
alternatives.
But
if
they
can
see
that
the
alternative
that
is
given
to
them
can
make
them
earn,
they're
even
the
ones
who
protect
our
staff
now.
Many
of
the
scientists
we
have
spoken
with
believe
the
situation
is
fatalistic
in
Indonesia
and
the
Philippines,
that
there's not
a
lot
that
can
be
done
to
stop
cyanide
fishing
until
the
government
does
something
about
it.
How
does
that
make
you
feel?
I
do
not
think
it's
that
fatalistic
because
in
the
village
that
we
have
trained,
the
fishermen
even
notice
that
their
seaweeds
have a
good
harvest
right
now,
and
the
price
is
right.
Much
more
if
they can
have
an
export
permit.
Then
they
said
they're
going
to be
more
successful
because
they're
not
now
using
cyanide
there
So
they
even
volunteered
to
accompany
us
to
other
islands
there
to
introduce
the
program
because
they
believe
in
the
program
now.Now
here
in
the
Philippines,
it's
also
the
same;
they
have
the
same
outlook.
But
like
the
Bijaos
and
the
other
people
that we
have
trained
in
Mindano,
they
are
very
happy
about
the
whole thing
and
they
have
stopped
using
cyanide.
It
doesn't
really
matter
because
these
people
have
not
really
had
their
inter-relationship
with
the
villagers
and
stayed
there
and
saw
the
problem
see
how
sometimes
only
the
whole
family
can
hit
only
once
a
day
or
once
every
two
days,
like
the
Bijaos,
before
we
came
in.
So,
once
the
alternative
is
given,
more
often than
not,
they
follow
the
kind
of
alternative
we
give.
What
motivates
you
to
keep
on
going
despite
the
bleak
picture?
I
love
my
work.
I
love
the
ocean,
I
love
diving
and
I've
seen re-growth
in
the
corals,
so
there
is
hope.
So,
it's
just
that we
have
to
work.
How
do
you
see
it
working
out?
It should
be
a
continuous,
training
of
different
areas
and
like
in
Davao,
where
they
now
protect
their
resources
because
they
get
money from
it,
it
becomes
a
very
good
example.
If
the
buyers
would
go
direct
to
these
fisherman
and
pay
them
the
right
price
then
there
is
no
question
about
these
fisherman
protecting
their
resources. Because
they
will
just
keep
getting
from
that
area
that
they
have been
fishing
on.
It's
terrific
that
you're
teaching
these
fishermen
non-destructive
fishing
methods.
However
if
there
are
too
many
of
them
fishing
couldn't
that
still
lead
to
over
fishing?
On
the
ornamental
fish
there
is
a
control
system.
The
market
does
not
get
the
juvenile
because
that's
not
it.
Or
the
big
ones
not the
spawners
because
it
does
not
also.
It
cannot
be
kept
alive
in
a
aquarium.
Now
the
fisherman.a
prime
example
is
in
Davao,
after
he
earns
10
dollars
he
goes
home.
He
does
not
fish
anymore
until
he
runs
out
of
money
again.
That's
the
way
a
fisherman
is,
and
that's
what
is
happening
there.
As
the
population
continues
to
grow
and
even
though
they
may
only fish
until
they
have
$10,
there
are
many,
many
more
fishermen
out
there.
Could
it
still
not
put
pressure
on
the
resource
and
lead
to
over
fishing?
In
areas
that
we
do
training,
it
has
to
be
very
sustainable.
We
do
not
introduce
intervention
in
an
area
which
is
not
sustainable
That
is
the
prerequisite
of
the
training.
Well,
even
here
where
we
dive
where
the
reefs
are
destroyed,
there's
a
lot
of
fish.
More
of
fish
than
food
fish,
of
course.
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